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alwayslabellavita:

rousseau-danielle:

plebcomics:

i have yet to see a feminist/sjw make a decent rebuttal against this argument. 

pretty much

Sigh. Here’s your argument. 

Do you think this is the first time someone has slyly said, “Hey, how come we can say ‘Not all Muslims!’ and ‘Not all black people!’ but not ‘Not all men!’?”…? Are you seriously saying that this “flawless logic” has never been introduced before and has never been refuted before? You live a very sheltered life, my friend. 

I almost don’t want to do this. But I just can’t let it go. 

To start with, the people who generally introduce the “How come we can say ‘Not all Muslims’ and ‘Not all black people’ but we can’t do the same for men,” rhetoric tend to be privileged white guys. I’m not just pulling this out of thin air; this has been my personal experience with the dozens and dozens of people I have witnessed trying to use this argument. Of course, it doesn’t have to be a white guy who uses this argument. But it usually tends to be. So right away you have a red flag. 

Okay. Moving on. (I almost can’t believe I have to spell this out for you…) When people say “Not all Muslims!” and “Not all black people!” it’s in response to accusations that these two groups of people are all violent criminals, radicals, and thugs who are out to murder every innocent person out there and bring destruction upon society. Stereotypes about black people and Muslims—both generally very marginalized groups in the Western world (I assume we’re talking on a Western world scale here)—are not only statistically FALSE (here’s a nice little reference for you to look at; click on the stats and you’ll find their sources) but they actually get real life black people and Muslims arrested, beaten, and killed for no reason other than the fact that they’re black or Muslim (God save the black Muslim man; I shudder to think of what his fate is).

Let me restate this: people say “Not all Muslims!” and “Not all black people!” in response to FAULTY claims that all black people and all Muslims are violent thugs and murderous radicals. (Wanna know a secret? It’s actually white males who have committed the most violent crime and hate crime in the U.S. alone. Please reference the link I linked above for sources.) And not only are these claims false and highly defamatory, they spread anti-black sentiment and Islamophobia to the point where black people and Muslims can’t live in safety because people have these ideas about them. So OF COURSE people are going to say “Not all Muslims!” and “Not all black people!” so they can possibly try to educate someone and stop them from having bigoted thoughts about marginalized groups so that the people in those groups can live in safety. 

Moving on. I’d like to start off by saying that I’ve almost never seen a feminist saying “All men are rapists,” or whatever. I think most people are sensible enough to realize that, quite obviously, not all men are racists. But all men ARE part of a patriarchal structure in society that propels rape culture and devalues women. And even though not all men may be physical aggressors, all men are definitely complicit in these societal structures if they stay silent about them. And even though not all men may be violent and aggressors, ALL WOMEN can be victims. (I mean this in the literal and legal sense; victims of crime and misogyny. If a woman who has been affected in some way doesn’t want to personally see herself as a “victim” she definitely has the right to do so.)

Furthermore, unlike in the situations of black people and Muslims, statistics DO support the fact that a VERY LARGE AMOUNT OF MEN GLOBALLY rape, assault, and harm women. Not all men, of course, gotta throw that in there so you guys don’t get too uncomfortable, but ENOUGH MEN DO that we have a widespread GLOBAL issue with men harming women (and men harming men, to be completely honest; most of the violent crime men are victims of is also perpetrated by other men). Here is a thing you should probably read, and it also links to several sources.

Okay, but moving on. I’ve covered how, statistically speaking, men don’t actually have much of a leg to stand on. Obviously we know not every man in the world has assaulted and/or raped and/or murdered a woman but there are far too many men who have, and do, for this to simply be another faulty and defamatory accusation against men, the way accusations against black people and Muslims are.

(By the way, pointing out these statistics isn’t even accusing men of anything. You know how accusations against black people work? “I think all black people are thugs, so YOU”—*points to individual random black man on the street*—“must be a thug too!” And this, ladies and gents, is how little black boys and girls like Trayvon Martin get killed. This is how Muslim people get hurt, like that Muslim girl who had hot coffee thrown in her face by some angry white guy in McDonald’s this past September 11th. But pointing out these statistics to men? It’s not doing the same thing. It’s saying, “Hey, look at this, a wildly large amount of men do this, if you don’t do it that’s great, but staying silent is staying complicit so how about you openly call out the men that DO do this.”)

But okay. We’ve addressed that. What about the after-effect? Do any of these “accusations” against men have any sort of real effect on their safety…pay…job choices…lives…? 

Oh dear me, I think I hear the sound of crickets chirping. 

We don’t have an issue with society taking these (completely valid) points, topics, and statistics about male-on-female violence and crime—and then going out to attack men and hurt men for it. Men aren’t actually being affected in real life. I mean sure, maybe a woman was mean to a guy once because he opened the door for her at a store, but otherwise…are we seeing an epidemic of men being targeted in real life, harassed, hurt, killed, beaten, abused, fired from jobs, thrown in jail, etc, because of these “accusations” against them?

No. No, we are not. 

Now I’m going to make this slightly personal. You comparing women talking about their experiences where living life has become an actual nightmare (let me make this painfully clear: we don’t know if we’re going to be alive tomorrow, just because some guy might lose his mind and go on yet another slaughtering spree because he’s mad that women rejected him or something) to RACIST RHETORIC—rhetoric that completely IGNORES HIERARCHIES OF POWER AND PRIVILEGE IN PLACE to degrade and abuse people of color—shows that you have no understanding of privilege or power and how they work in systematic oppression. I’m so embarrassed for you because YOUR rhetoric is more similar to racist rhetoric if you’re ignoring the fact that the institutions are made up of men and therefore accusations against women actually do affect their health, safety, right to their own bodies, and livelihood…whereas accusations against men affect nothing but, again, their feelings. 

Which is something you even pointed out in your comic but “cleverly” (I guess) decided to try and negate with “But haha aren’t you using racist-similar rhetoric now?”

Haha, no we’re not. This was such a weak attempt. Please don’t try again. 

Oh, and it must be nice to live in your comic world where it’s the man getting harassed by the woman. Unfortunately, in the real world, it’s usually men who lose their temper when arguing with a woman. And then they kill the woman. But, you know, sure. 

This is a very…verbose way of saying “well that doesn’t count because…”, and one recurring thought that I had throughout your post is a comment made by both my (former) Marketing and Data Management teachers, which is this:

"Statistics can be skewed to come to pretty much any conclusion you want"

and my personal favourite,

"Statistics don’t lie, but liars use statistics"

Which isn’t necessarily to say you’re a liar, but you have used some pretty shady stats, and even at times contradicted yourself in one post. But, I digress.

And so the elaboration begins:

To start with, the people who generally introduce the “How come we can say ‘Not all Muslims’ and ‘Not all black people’ but we can’t do the same for men,” rhetoric tend to be privileged white guys. I’m not just pulling this out of thin air; this has been my personal experience with the dozens and dozens of people I have witnessed trying to use this argument. Of course, it doesn’t have to be a white guy who uses this argument. But it usually tends to be. So right away you have a red flag. 

The red flag being what? Her (yes, her) race? Is her entire argument called into question because of her race? I’m black and I agree with her, so I’m not entirely sure where you were going with this to begin with.

When people say “Not all Muslims!” and “Not all black people!” it’s in response to accusations that these two groups of people are all violent criminals, radicals, and thugs who are out to murder every innocent person out there and bring destruction upon society. 

Similarly, when people say “not all men” it is in response to accusations both on and off tumblr that men are not only primarily, but solely the violent sex and rapists in the world. I’m going to probably repeat this throughout my response, but you seem to be conveniently overlooking the fact that by saying “all men” you are effectively including black men, Muslim men, and men of every race, religion and creed. As a result, (I’m honestly surprised you haven’t grasped this) you are also perpetuating racist stereotypes about black men (because black men are men after all, and therefore fall under the “all men” umbrella), and other stereotypes about men from other walks of life.

Stereotypes about black people and Muslims—both generally very marginalized groups in the Western world (I assume we’re talking on a Western world scale here)—are not only statistically FALSE (here’s a nice little reference for you to look at; click on the stats and you’ll find their sources) but they actually get real life black people and Muslims arrested, beaten, and killed for no reason other than the fact that they’re black or Muslim (God save the black Muslim man; I shudder to think of what his fate is).

But stereotypes about men are somehow justified? Never mind that the “rape culture” hysteria has resulted in accused rapists being viewed as guilty until proven innocent, kangaroo courts, and cases like this where a young man was expelled from a school after a trial in which his own attorney was not even allowed to speak, and even after it was determined that the accusation was false he was still barred from returning to school.

Let me restate this: people say “Not all Muslims!” and “Not all black people!” in response to FAULTY claims that all black people and all Muslims are violent thugs and murderous radicals. (Wanna know a secret? It’s actually white males who have committed the most violent crime and hate crime in the U.S. alone. Please reference the link I linked above for sources.)

And when people say “not all men” it is in response to equally faulty claims that all men are violent aggressors, and insinuations that all men are rapists. I don’t understand how you are not comprehending this.

By the way, your link says nothing about white men being responsible for the most violent crime, but it does give sources that indicate that white people are responsible for the most violent crime. To be completely honest, when you consider that white people make up as much as 72% of the American population (according to this census from 2010), I would be pretty concerned if they weren’t responsible for the majority of violent crime. That tends to be how demographic distribution works, but that  wouldn’t favour your argument so you conveniently left it out. Again, statistics don’t lie, but removing appropriate context makes you look like you are hiding something.

And not only are these claims false and highly defamatory, they spread anti-black sentiment and Islamophobia to the point where black people and Muslims can’t live in safety because people have these ideas about them. So OF COURSE people are going to say “Not all Muslims!” and “Not all black people!” so they can possibly try to educate someone and stop them from having bigoted thoughts about marginalized groups so that the people in those groups can live in safety. 

Once again, similarly when these claims are made about men en general it spreads misconceptions about rape and general sexual assault to the point that the definition of rape still excludes being forced to penetrate somebody, which is how a lot of female-on-male rape occurs, and thus erases potentially thousands of male rape victims.

In an explanation of a rape study done, the NISVS said the following: 

To explain, in NISVS we define rape as “any completed or attempted unwanted vaginal (for women), oral, or anal penetration through the use of physical force (such as being pinned or held down, or by the use of violence) or threats to physically harm and includes times when the victim was drunk, high, drugged, or passed out and unable to consent.”

We defined sexual violence other than rape to include being made to penetrate someone else, sexual coercion, unwanted sexual contact, and non-contact unwanted sexual experiences.”

Being made to penetrate isn’t even considered rape, and keep in mind that this quote is from less than a year ago. 

But according to you, “not all black people” is educational and “not all men” is derailment. I cannot fathom the double think that led you to this conclusion.

Moving on. I’d like to start off by saying that I’ve almost never seen a feminist saying “All men are rapists,” or whatever. I think most people are sensible enough to realize that, quite obviously, not all men are ra[p]ists.

It happens on tumblr, often.

This one isn’t even from tumblr, this happened on a college campus. It’s out there, whether you want to believe it or not.

And even though not all men may be physical aggressors, all men are definitely complicit in these societal structures if they stay silent about them. And even though not all men may be violent and aggressors, ALL WOMEN can be victims. 

I imagine this is a slap in the face to many, many male rape victims. All women are potential victims, but all men aren’t? Are women incapable of rape now (I guess the 46% of male rape victims who said the aggressor was female don’t exist anymore)? Do you realize how idiotic you sound? You just looked over male-on-male rape, female-on-male rape and female-on-female rape. Congratu-fucking-lations, well done.

Furthermore, unlike in the situations of black people and Muslims, statistics DO support the fact that a VERY LARGE AMOUNT OF MEN GLOBALLY rape, assault, and harm women. Not all men, of course, gotta throw that in there so you guys don’t get too uncomfortable, but ENOUGH MEN DO that we have a widespread GLOBAL issue with men harming women (and men harming men, to be completely honest; most of the violent crime men are victims of is also perpetrated by other men).

These statistics you love to regurgitate are limited by the fact that they exclude, like I said before, being forced to penetrate. Being forced to penetrate is considered sexual assault, but not rape, and as a result it is pretty difficult for the majority of rapists not to be men as the criteria that is presented requires owning a phallus. 

"Statistics can be skewed to come to pretty much any conclusion you want"

The statistics aren’t wrong, obviously, because they fulfilled the criteria required, but then they criteria itself is faulty in many areas so it renders the statistics questionable at best.

This is also the part where you contradicted yourself. At the beginning of your post you gave a link to your blog where you posted the “99% of rapists are men” statistic, and then you go on to post a link to how feminists have fought to change the definition of rape. Apparently changing the definition doesn’t mean shit if feminists are going to continue to parrot the 99% statistic to justify mass hysteria.

Obviously we know not every man in the world has assaulted and/or raped and/or murdered a woman but there are far too many men who have, and do, for this to simply be another faulty and defamatory accusation against men, the way accusations against black people and Muslims are.

And here you show again that you have somehow managed to delude yourself into believing that by saying “men”, you are only talking about “white cis men”, and no other man on the planet. You are failing miserably to understand that by saying “men” you are including black men, you are including Muslim men, and by your own logic you are thereby contributing to the stigmas and stereotypes that you’ve gone on about ad nauseum in your post. In a very literal sense, you are a hypocrite.

(By the way, pointing out these statistics isn’t even accusing men of anything. You know how accusations against black people work? “I think all black people are thugs, so YOU”—*points to individual random black man on the street*—“must be a thug too!” And this, ladies and gents, is how little black boys and girls like Trayvon Martin get killed. This is how Muslim people get hurt, like that Muslim girl who had hot coffee thrown in her face by some angry white guy in McDonald’s this past September 11th. But pointing out these statistics to men? It’s not doing the same thing. It’s saying, “Hey, look at this, a wildly large amount of men do this, if you don’t do it that’s great, but staying silent is staying complicit so how about you openly call out the men that DO do this.”)

You’ve obviously never heard of Shrodinger’s Rapist, a feminist-created theory which is almost word-for-word your ‘black thug’ analogy. Because of it’s striking similarity, it’s only logical to conclude that it has the same effect that your thug analogy would.

We don’t have an issue with society taking these (completely valid) points, topics, and statistics about male-on-female violence and crime—and then going out to attack men and hurt men for it. Men aren’t actually being affected in real life. I mean sure, maybe a woman was mean to a guy once because he opened the door for her at a store, but otherwise…are we seeing an epidemic of men being targeted in real life, harassed, hurt, killed, beaten, abused, fired from jobs, thrown in jail, etc, because of these “accusations” against them?

Fuck. Me. You are in denial. I’ve already addressed the effects above, so I’m not going into it again, but really? How deep is your head in the sand?

Now I’m going to make this slightly personal. You comparing women talking about their experiences where living life has become an actual nightmare (let me make this painfully clear: we don’t know if we’re going to be alive tomorrow, just because some guy might lose his mind and go on yet another slaughtering spree because he’s mad that women rejected him or something) to RACIST RHETORIC—rhetoric that completely IGNORES HIERARCHIES OF POWER AND PRIVILEGE IN PLACE to degrade and abuse people of color—shows that you have no understanding of privilege or power and how they work in systematic oppression. I’m so embarrassed for you because YOUR rhetoric is more similar to racist rhetoric if you’re ignoring the fact that the institutions are made up of men and therefore accusations against women actually do affect their health, safety, right to their own bodies, and livelihood…whereas accusations against men affect nothing but, again, their feelings. 

You’re really something, you know that? This blatant victim mentality, despite the fact that men are almost as often victims of rape as women, yet men are the ones who must carry the burden of being viewed as the potential rapist, and if they find themselves the victims of rape, they are also more likely to leave it unreported because of the social stigma attached that “erection=they wanted it”, they “should have enjoyed it”, and the most pervasive and disturbing belief that is held by some, “women can’t rape men”. 

When you consider that all of the anti-rape campaigns have either been primarily or solely directed at men, including the “Don’t be that Guy” campaign, no argument can be made that men aren’t taught not to rape from a young age.

And you referenced the Elliot Rodger murders (where I bolded), that has only proved to me how fucking ignorant you are. The fact that you actually think his sole motive was misogyny…I’m honestly trying to keep calm because I’m sick of this bullshit being passed around as much as it has.

You’ve also managed to insinuate that false accusations against men don’t have any negative repercussions, because “men are in institutions of power”.  For someone so eloquent you really are proving to be a fucking idiot.

It’s pretty sad that you’ve managed to make such a pithy attempt to write off a completely valid comic with the pseudo-intellectual nonsense you’ve spewed throughout. Your evaluation was, in your own words, “a weak attempt”. 

And for the icing on the cake…

Unfortunately, in the real world, it’s usually men who lose their temper when arguing with a woman. And then they kill the woman. But, you know, sure. 

Women aren’t the innocent party in this.

But, you know, sure.

plebcomics, I meant to respond to this yesterday but I got busy with life and shit. Anyway, here’s my response.

supermeghan:

whenever im lost and confused i turn to michael for help

(x)

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